S1 E3 Continuing Education
Episode Audio
Erica Zimmer is a Senior Instructional Designer who has been learning about Inclusive Design.
Connect with Heidi:
Transcript:
The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain typos or spelling errors.
Amy:
Welcome, I'm Amy Petricek, learning enthusiast and your host. The Share Whatcha Learned podcast is for learning professionals to share something they're learning in the field of instructional design. Today I'm talking to Heidi Kirby about continuing education. Heidi, hi! It's so great to have you here. How are you?
Heidi:
I'm well, how about yourself?
Amy:
Good. Would you mind taking a couple of seconds to introduce yourself to my listeners?
Heidi:
Of course! So I'm Heidi Kirby. And my career started in higher education. I started out as an English professor and taught all over Northeast Ohio. I got into instructional design about four years ago, after getting a couple of master's degrees under my belt in English and in curriculum and instruction, and then realizing I cannot teach part time at five colleges for the rest of my life. If you've ever taught part time at college, you know where I'm coming from. It is like, I needed consistency in schedule. And when I learned about instructional design that was even a field through my education and graduate degree. And so I started pursuing a PhD in instructional design, and then a couple semesters in, I worked on my portfolio and everything and transitioned into an instructional design role, actually, for NASA. And so I worked there for a little bit and then hopped around to a few different places working as an instructional designer, but this year, I just started a role, where I am now actually managing a learning team, trying to help the learning function of an organization. So it's been exciting. But I'm surrounded by learning and development. I host a podcast myself called the BLOC or Building Learning and Organizational Culture podcast. And then I also volunteer for a group called Teaching: a Path to L&D, where we provide mentoring coaching, webinars, resources, free, free, free for teachers who are looking to get into the field, you have had quite an expansive and extensive career path. Heidi, I just want to like give you like a round of applause here. It's incredible.
Amy:
I do have a question that we're talking about continuing education. And you mentioned that you have masters.
Heidi:
Yes, plural.
Amy:
How many do you have?
Heidi:
Just two.
Amy:
Just two?
Heidi:
Oh, my God, that's Yeah, well, but saying it plural makes it sound like more but no, just to I have a master's in English Lit and in education and curriculum and instruction. So So is it fair to say that you like learning? Would you say, it's just what I've been good at, like, I've never been good at sports. I was in show choir, but like that's, you know, that's that ends after high school, but like, going to school and getting good grades has just been consistently what I've been good at, so I just stuck with it.
Amy:
So tell us, you're in a Ph. D. program right now. Can you tell us what you're studying and where you're studying at?
Heidi:
Yeah, so I'm in the Instructional Design and Technology Program at Old Dominion University. And it's a completely distance learning program. So that means the courses meets and they meet synchronously, but they meet through WebEx. Some courses are asynchronous, but for the most part, you do have class times and everything. It's Old Dominion is in Virginia, and I'm in Cleveland. So it's there's a little bit of space there. Yeah.
Amy:
And how long is your program?
Heidi:
For me, it's going to be about five and a half years, but it varies depending on you know, the coursework and how long it takes to do your dissertation and all that good stuff.
Amy:
First of all, that's commendable. A lot of life to give to something and how far along are you in that process?
Heidi:
So I am officially now a PhD candidate, which means that I have passed my comprehensive exams, and I'm working towards starting my actual dissertation research. Very cool. Yeah, I'm at the stage where it's now a battle of wills. And if I was less stubborn, I might have given up by now but now I'm at that point where I'm like digging in my heels. I'm like, Okay, let's do this, let's finish this off.
Amy:
Of course, you're this far and you got it. Exactly. Okay, so you're presently on PhD path, I'd love to hear about what drew you down that path. And you've already shared what you got it in. So maybe I just share a little bit more about what drew you towards a PhD?
Heidi:
Sure. So initially, it was the fact that, you know, like you pointed out, I have two masters. And when I decided to transition into the field, I was like, Oh, my gosh, I need more of the theoretical or the foundational knowledge. And if you're like me, you need the accountability, right? So you need to have money invested, and people to answer to, to be able to get all that because I know, there's a lot of free resources out there, but leave me to my own devices. And I'll never make time for like, if they're not on Netflix, you know. On the other hand, I have a PhD, a doctorate was kind of always like a personal goal of mine, kind of in the back of my mind, since I started undergrad. And so initially, it was just more of that personal goal thing. But as I started the program, and as things kind of started happening in my career, and just, you know, in the world, in general, there was a lot of emphasis on working mothers, and, you know, women and equal rights, where it kind of, I kind of shifted my thinking, starting the instructional design position, like the real actual work, I was like, man, this day to day design stuff is for the birds. Like I am not artistic enough to do the creation work every day. But I was super drawn to like the leading projects and the, you know, relationships with people and having that very detailed, look at all the pieces parts, but also that zoomed out look at, you know, the organizational impact. And I realize through, like I mentioned, kind of like the women at work and some of like the inspiring feminists that I follow on LinkedIn that like, the way that I had been described as a young girl stubborn, strong willed bossy, the B word, whatever, was like setting me up perfectly for leadership material, right? And because I preferred, kind of the project management aspect more, I was like, You know what, I don't think I want to be an instructional designer, I think I want to be a learning leader. And so now the PhD became something a lot more because now that was leveraged to. And now when people ask why I'm getting my PhD, I say, because I want to be a learning and development leader. And my ultimate goal, like dream job would be chief learning officer of an organization and to lean leader learning function for a whole organization.
Amy:
I think what you're highlighting is something really interesting. When people go into instructional design, I think there's kind of there can be more of like a pigeon holed or narrow minded vision of what that looks like, like, sure, instructional design is all there is. But I think when you look at the vastness of the profession, there are so many opportunities, whether it's kind of more of that project manager role, or a writing content, or actually as a designer. And it sounds like that was a piece of the puzzle for you, as you stepped into the profession of actually, I want more than kind of the initial. I have this image of like walking in the door of the profession. So that initial like opening of the doors like actually, I want something more than this role.
Heidi:
Right. So instead of closing the door, I just kept walking, right. Okay, let's, let's see what's in here. Yeah, exactly. And my PhD program has really helped with that as well, because, you know, we do have courses like human performance technology, and, you know, courses that emphasize change management and some of those other parts of the greater learning and development field that aren't so design centric.
Amy:
So when would you say is a good time for someone to consider adding additional schooling to their resume? Maybe not a PhD like you, maybe it's a master's degree or two? I don't know. But when would you say is a good time?
Heidi:
So I will say this, and I would shout it but because we're on a podcast, I'm not going to shout it. But if I could shout it from the mountaintops, I would do not spend 10s of 1000s of dollars to put two lines on your resume. Like just just don't do it. I would say that anytime you want to add schooling your resume, don't make it because it's adding it to your resume don't make it about I'm trying to get a job, will it look better if I have x, y, and z? Because instructional design is a weird fields, and very specifically, depending on what job posting you look at, they may care about continuing education, and they might not. And there are plenty of instructional designers in the field who don't have a degree in anything related to instructional design. So it really has to be about your own personal motivation, and what are you trying to get out of it. And what are you trying to learn and grow and know, so if you have that desire, that you want to, you need to know more about this, but you're like me, and you need either like the accountability or something extra there as to why you can't do it on your own, then that's when I would say you should consider additional schooling.
Amy:
Part of my transition into instructional design was learning all the different pathways in and hearing people's stories, and it is so vast all the pathways in and I was thinking in particular, you coming from higher education, would you say that it's generally speaking, if you're going to be looking for a job in higher education, having some kind of additional schooling would be helpful on your resume?
Heidi:
I think it's more important in higher ed to the administration to the professors that you're going to be working with than it is in the corporate world, for sure. Is it mission critical? Not always.
Amy:
When looking for schools, what were you looking for? What would you recommend other L&D professionals pursuing continuing education be on the lookout for when looking for schools?
Heidi:
Sure, so there is kind of this. It's almost like a job interview where you're trying to find the perfect fit, right? Especially for a PhD program, because you're dedicating so much of your life and so much of your money to it, it needs to be a good fit. So for me, one of the biggest things was, I'm a crazy person, and I started my Ph. D program when my son was six months old. So it was like the perfect time, Heidi. Hey, I was not alone. The more people I met, the more I realized I wasn't the only one with small children. But it was really important for me to have a program that was fully distance education where I didn't have to go anywhere for the learning. It was also important, because I had a little one, but we talk about learning experiences, we talk about designing and developing them. And we have this emphasis that, you know, we can do it online, we can do it virtually we can do it. However it makes the most sense. And we don't need to necessarily be in the classroom. And I just couldn't reconcile having an instructional design program telling me I needed to be somewhere, right. And then also teaching those concepts. So Old Dominion really practices what they preach in that sense. And so they were just a really good fit. When I met my now advisor, I also knew it was going to be a good fit, because one of the biggest criticisms of graduate education out there is that it doesn't give you enough practical experience. My advisor, worked in corporate before he became a professor. So he had years of instructional design experience in the corporate world before he even moved to higher ed. And I was like, This is perfect. Yeah. So he has always been willing to willing to appreciate my very practical approach to the field. Like I don't publish a lot of research. I'm, you know, working and doing a podcast, like, research is not my jam. And he's totally cool with that. So I needed to find a school that was all those things, right?
Amy:
That's incredible that I mean that you found something. I mean, it feels like a niche to me that you found something that was just this perfect alignment. And I think that's what I hear you saying is like, don't just spend 1000s of dollars on anything, be intentional and be mindful. And even as you're looking at potential advisors and things, consider what experience they're bringing to the table and does that help you in your longer term vision and goals?
Heidi:
For sure. The other thing that I'll say too, is that the vast majority of us in the program and in the cohort that I've met are also working full time. And the program is really great about understanding that. So not only are all the classes like after work hours. But I've had multiple different professors who were willing to make some minor tweaks to assignments so that I could do them through my work. And so it was, right. So you're at work doing your job, but you're also getting schoolwork done at the same time. And it has just made it that much easier to be successful.
Amy:
I can only imagine I feel like that's every, like, grad students dream, like I could work and have these things overlap instead of having them be separate. And yeah, if you're working a full time job, and then have this part time job of school on top of it. That's a lot. Oh, yeah. Okay, so you're in an interesting position in that you're getting a PhD. And I think you are the only instructional designer I know, pursuing that. And so I'm really curious who you would say, would be a good fit for that, or who you would recommend a PhD to in the learning and development world?
Heidi:
That's a really good question. Because it is something that's so very personal, I would say that to the average person who just wants to be an instructional designer at the corporate level, not necessary, and I probably wouldn't recommend it. At that point, I'd recommend maybe a certificate right like way, smaller scale. But if you are looking for that, director, VP, chief learning officer role, or in the higher ed space director of online learning, or you know, something, I'm not as familiar with administration in the higher ed space, but if you're looking for that leadership role, I think that that's going to be a lot more helpful. If you're looking to be one of the thought leaders and do a lot of research in the field, then that's another reason that I would recommend I have a lot of friends in my program, who that's what they're going to be. And that's what they already are. And they're not even done with the program yet.
Amy:
So I appreciate you sharing that I think, you know, as I was a beginning instructional designer and considering like, do I add continuing education to my resume, and what does that look like, and ultimately, my partner was in grad school. So to grad schools wasn't really in the cards for us this certificate route, but it worked great. And I got a great job like, so there, if you are looking for that introductory role, maybe the industry standard, whatever you'd call that instructional design role. There are lots of options to get in. But it sounds like if you're really looking to target those really higher up roles that having more of that theory, more of that, I think you said earlier, maybe philosophy of learning, those kinds of things can be really helpful.
Heidi:
It can and it can just give you a broader look at the field as a whole, which is really more helpful when you're leading an entire learning and development function rather than just doing the instructional design role.
Amy:
Well, we're going to transition from here into the rapid round questions, Heidi. Alright, so first off, learning is
Heidi:
Learning is growing. So I'm in a unique position right now, like I said, I have like learning all around me, but also I have a four year old. And so this is very much real to me. And it's it's funny, because all of my learning and instructional design experience is very much with adults 18 and over. So watching my four year old learn is like totally a foreign concept to me. But it's so fun. And it just really reminds me of where we're at when we don't have when we have like that base knowledge of something.
Amy:
The feeling of being a beginner at something. Absolutely, yeah. So when you're mustering up the courage to learn something new, what song do you put on Heidi?
Heidi:
Okay, so this is a really, really hard question for me, because it truly depends on what I'm trying to learn. First of all, if it's something really difficult, that and I can't just like pick a song like, Okay, I have to give you like a playlist, go through your name over a playlist. But if it's something that's difficult that I'm anticipating is going to frustrate me, late 90s, early 2000s hip hop all the way Nelly ludicrous Lil Wayne, maybe some m&m in their latest please, you got to get pumped. Right? Yes, you did. So that is the music to do it. Maybe a little ti to like really get pumped up. Yeah. But if it's something that like I'm learning new and I do like a lot of crafting. So if it's something that's like relatively easy, where I'm trying to learn a new technique or something like that, but I don't need to be pumped up, I'll put on some sort of instrumental. Maybe Vivaldi because that's my favorite composer, but it's it kind of depends on the level of difficulty.
Amy:
I can respect that. And it it makes me chuckle the broad span of music. I love it, though. It's true. We all have like our different playlists that get us through different things. It's true. Yeah. you're asked to do a brand new task with a skill set you do not yet have where do you turn Heidi?
Heidi:
This is easy. YouTube and Google and YouTube. I am notorious for watching tutorial videos like at double speed. Like, just get it out. Give me the info as quick as possible. And let me get on my way.
Amy:
I recently learned that this is a thing people do. I didn't realize this was normal. But you are like, I don't know the third or fourth person to say that they like watching movies, different varieties at double speed. That's awesome.
Heidi:
Yeah, well in podcasts too. I'm guilty of listening to podcasts at double speed because mostly that's like a time thing like okay, I've got 15 minutes driving in the car but this podcast I want to listen to his half hour double speed.
Amy:
So beautiful. without learning. Heidi, can you fill in the blank?
Heidi:
Without learning things get stale, like moldy bread.
Amy:
Well, thanks so much, Heidi, for sharing all about your PhD and continuing education with us. Be sure to check out her podcast the BLOC podcast and also the Teaching: a Path to L&D group. I also want to give a shout out to you my listeners for spending some time learning with us today. Until next time, stay open and receptive and kind.